Michigan's Otherside Paranormal Forums

I feel in a rantin' mood! Here are some random things that have been bothering me lately.

I've recently noticed a lot of people out there who have just jumped into paranormal investigation state on their sites or myspace pages key words like: "scientific", "serious," "researchers," "we're here to help," and what really disturbs me, "we can handle violent/hostile hauntings." These words are being used without any thought.

I started thinking about this recently. Many people who are new to this, state they are all these things and are actually advertising for people with hauntings and looking to conduct investigations in these peoples homes. If you were having something scary or unexplained go on in your home, and you invite a "team" over because you see them using these words and they all just formed 2 weeks ago, how are they qualified to go into someone's personal home and literally invade with whatever equipment they have. A paranormal investigation is a very invasive process typically.

It disturbs me when I see very young ghost hunters saying they can handle a violent haunting. People who have virtually no experience with this type of thing do not have the know how to handle this. What do you guys thing on this? We all started somewhere and at one point knew nothing! But when I was at that point, I never professed to be able to handle a demonic haunting!

I saw the Ghost Divas, a charismatic duo who do a radio show and have been ghost hunting for some time, speak at The Haunted America conference this summer. While they are very tongue and cheek, they make some good points. One of them is "looking presentable." I've seen some pictures of many of these new "would be ghost hunters" and it's scary. Some of them look like criminals. No joke. Based on some of the photos of these people I've seen, if I was someone looking for paranormal help, I'd never contact them to come into my home! I'd be too scared they'd make off with my stuff! And while some might argue and say, "We can't all be Brad Pitt's and Angelina's, we all can certainly clean up a bit, comb hair, and put some deodorant on regardless of what genes our parents gave us! I know probably everyone of you guys have seen examples of this somewhere out there on the Internet.

And lastly on this rant, I was starting to think about implications of paranormal investigations. There have been teams who don't follow through on anything or who have actually run out on the client when things started to happen. I also started wondering about the legal implications of paranormal investigations. I was talking to someone at the Michigan Ghost Conference recently who told us about a team who came into a home and told the people they had demons in their home and needed to go to church and "repent their sins." WTF?!
Nevertheless, that scared the bleep out of those people! Who has the right to tell someone that type of information? If people are going into homes, scaring the bejesus out of them and then just leaving them in the dust, have you ever thought if there could be legal problems with that? With how popular the paranormal has been lately and a new paranormal team popping up behind every tombstone, this is some food for thought.

Rant away everyone if you have an opinion!

Amber, First let me say nice rant!!!! Your a professional ranter.

Well I rant all week long visiting pages of new and old teams all over the web. I read about them and there investigations. I am probably in a hate circle somewhere because I call it like I see it. I try and be nice and even offer to help them if I'm able. I read some of these new teams bragging how they took 30 minutes to rip plywood off windows to a boarded up place, or broken out windows, cement blocks, and even kicked in doors to gain access so they could do an investigation. This gives all investigators bad names, if you don't have permission then don't go.
Demons, I am amazed by all the people that feel they are able to go to a place with a reported demon and help the family. The team I belong to is established and will call in a professional if faced with a case like this. I have no desire to face a demon, but see 17 year olds that claim to be demomologists. Its amazing teams that claim they can rid people of demons.
Evil surrounds us, it walks amond us every day. The evil presence that some of us have felt at one time or another is a demon. A demon differs from a ghost or spirit, because a spirit is what remains after the body dies, a demon has never lived on Earth at least has never lived the way we understand living. I would advise not investigating a site where it is possible that a demonic presence is present because of the danger. Remember the first rule of ghost hunting always be safe, if you are investigating a site where you believe a demonic presence to be....don't get in over your head...get in contact with somone qualified to handle the situation.

"Ed(Warren), I would never go into homes and confront the enities that you do for any reasons-especally where the demonic are concerned. Once you cross the threshold into the world of darkness, you willl forever be in danger, as well as those whom you love. Like it or not, you will be unique and alone among man. Never forget the diabolical forces you challenge are cleaver, for unlike any mortal, they possess the wisdom and the knowlegdge of the ages." The Demonologist by Gerald Brittle

What is a demonologist?-Someone that study's and catalogs demons.

The Study of Demons-A Demonologist studies every kind of recorded demon through history. The demonologist must go threw endless texts and sometimes travel great distances to find literature(mostly relegious material) of human intervention with demons.
Cataloging Demons-When you encounter a demon you must know as much about it for the next time you either encounter it or come across it in your texts.
Cataloging includes origin, gender, ethnic background, what religion it exists in, what geographical area in the world it mostly exists, sketches. Cataloging is the most important job of a demonlolgist because it differentiates all the demons.
Conjuring- A demonologist knows how to bring a demon out, he know's how to speak to the demon.
To become an approved demonologist you must be some kind of clergy. As of today there are 7 demonologist, one of them is a layman, Ed Warren.
Demonic posession-A person that has become inhabited or taken over by a demon and who cannot exercise his own will.

Ok my last rant is some of these teams are saying they are free, but after they do an investigation tell the homeowner they have a demon or they are haunted. They then tell the people we can rid your home but it will be expensive. I have read charges of $5,000.00 dollars. They prey upon a person already scared and take advantage of them.

Well enough for me for now.

hahahahah! Professional Ranter....I like that

When I first came into this, I really didn't believe in Demons and evil entities. I chalked that up to Hollywood, but when I had my first encounter with something not too nice, it changed my perspective on it and I would never deal with something like that on my own. Demonology is the "new fad" in the paranormal now it seems.
We need some type of reporting center for when people encounter these teams scaring the hell out of people and then trying to get money out of them.
You also mentioned that once someone delves into that territory, they are marked so to say. Tom has always said that about the darker aspects of the paranormal. Once you encounter something of a bad nature, if you try and rid it, it's almost like it "remembers" you. Tom would have a better understanding of that because he's dealt with it before, but it's nothing to be taken lightly.

what a absolutely fabulous rant!

I wish I weren't at work and could develop a great reply, but sadly can't at the moment

I agree with pretty much everything both of you have said.

While reading this I couldn't help but remember that I'm new-ish on the forum, and I'm hoping that I'm not one that comes across as an ex-con-looking ghosthunter who breaks into abandoned buildings and claims to punch demons square in the face as an effort to "help"

lol.

Ghost hunters are a dime a dozen now...I think it's all how they carry themselves. I know I wouldn't take a group of hooligans serious, let alone let them in my house! Thanks to good 'ol corporate america, I've learned that at the VERY least, if you want the part you have to at least dress/look the part...whether physically or through your website.

Great rant! Wish I had the time to rant more
_mike

LOL! Too funny Mike! HAHAHAHAH! But don't worry, you never crossed my mind while writing my "rant." There are brand new ghost hunters you can meet, and they are awesome! They are smart, have good intentions and all kinds of other good qualities about them. My rant was half motivated by what I see on Myspace.

And yes, that's a good way of putting it, "how you carry yourself." That's very important in anything you do, even "ghost hunting!"

I agree with your rant Amber....

I have been doing this for years, and I still do not think I could fully handle anything violent or scary (let alone witness anything but once)...

First off the only idiots out there that say they can handle something violent has never been in a situation of violence (this goes for anything, abuse, war, ect ect ect)

I grew up on the streets in Houston when it was the number one murder capital in the Usa...
I have been in some bad situations, and have witnessed one violent haunting...and I would still be the last one to ever say I can handle a violent haunting....(of coarse again I would have to witness it as they are rare...and far more idiots out there who impose these violent haunting on themselves by giving in to fears, when there is logical reasons for the on goings, or they invited the trouble there themselves...) but i regress as like you Amber I could go on for hours on how some day some one is going to get hurt again like the girl in Washington (she was shot investigating a haunting when she stumbled across the neighbors yard, he did not know who she was, thought she was a robber and shot her...) those yes those are the same people who post on myspace and say I can handle violent haunting...the same ones who ignore basic scientific approach or claim to have witness dozen of so called real haunting, oh and the same ones who put their garbage in books, on websites, ect ect ect...gheesh I am going on ...I will end this now..

Smiles

Hey good ta here from ya Lostzac:)
I never heard about the girl that got shot investigating...that's awful!

I think many of us could go on, and on, and on....We're all going to have to meet one day at a bar, drink, and have a bitch fest:)

I need to rant..
I know of a team that takes their teenage children on investigations (13, and 16) Basically its a husband, wife and children team..........How can anyone possibly take them serious?
Actually makes me sick.

I agree on the myspace pages rant.. I am sick of the free site paranormal teams..
We never had a myspace till this year. and thank god that it generates no investigations.
because if our myspace page was generating investigations, then some of these horrible wanna be teams would be getting them as well. I will never work with a team that only resides on free sites..
We use myspace to network with other teams of the same interest, and try to network accross the world.

Demons, 5 yrs people, never came accross not 1 demon...hmmm we came accross some pretty smart entities, and some mischievious entities, but never a demon...So keep misrepresenting the spirits, we will fix it after you leave..not to say their not their, but....

Yes ghost hunters are a dime a dozen, but true Paranormal Investigators are still a minority, and hopefully their are enough of us to fix the damages caused by these new free site teams, before the government gets involved and starts making laws that we will have to follow. Thats another thing.......teams that charge....hello why don't we just lay out the red carpet for the government..I am telling you no good could come out of this when the government gets involved. Whether its a client sueing a team, or the state pressing charges because a team scared a homeowner so bad that he/she committed suicide..GOD FORBID.

Damn AMBERROSE why did you start this topic, lol

I wrote this back a while ago on another forum, I thought I would share it here..
Just a couple of thoughts....My opinion only of course....

I have been investigating for 5 years.. My team nor myself have never trespassed, nor will we ever. Of course we were ORBY's can't lie about that.. hell we used to use taperecorders...OMG. Most new teams starting are following our footsteps..all of our footsteps. But!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who are we to criticize them? Really are you an expert? The answer to that is NO!!!!!

If we were experts than we would have huge grants from the Government to be paranormal Investigating, and scientist taking our evidence and analizing it. (AGREE)

My team has been successful because we never presented false evidence, we take our investigations seriously. We don't proclaim to have faught DEMONS, nor been attacked by one.. come on really how many times have you heard that? If this was the case there would be demon activity at every investigation. Teams that are just starting sometimes don't understand the meaning of an intelligent haunt, and mistake them as DEMONS.

This community is no worse off then when there was no tv shows, its just multiplied!!!!!!. Some of the older teams should agree, that all these issues we are complaining about we use to do!!!!!or still do.

Research is the most important aspect to the paranormal investigator, not only researching your case but dwelling into scientific findings. Such as how orbs can be recreated, all of them. Even the balls of energy can be recreated, it was done in a scientific lab. We have recreated them just by placing a copper wire over the posts of a 6 volt battery. Research into the place of investigation, such as toxicology reports, land deposits, such as salt, copper, iron, etc. Having all the equipment under the sun, will not aid you if you don't know whats making it go off.

Is it really worse today then yesterday, or the day before? Thats the question.

Take care,

Ok I can only hope that me and my team are not thought of as "myspace" paranormal team , even though we did start there. We are looking at a real page but have been spending all of our budget on equipment . And yes I can see all of the great points made here but thinking and saying one team is better then another because they only have a free page is in my humble opinion not really fair. I like to think that my team is every bit as professional as Matt's or any other respected and time proven team out there. Granted we are "green" but I can also say we would be the first ones to call for help or advice if we got in over our heads , and Matt remeber I have your number lol.

Ok I have to make this quick cause I"m at work LOL! But before I can comment on Matt's excellent rant, I just wanted to give a shout out to Eric. We all know here who's serious and who's not regardless of what type of website they use, whether it's Myspace or a regular .com site. We know that not every team has the money or the time to set up and maintain a site.
I think we all know what types of Myspace teams we are talking about here. We've all seen the profiles. Myspace has it's perks and it's bad points. MOS has a Myspace page and I've got a lot of people from Myspace to come over and check out our site and the forums. So it can be a useful tool. Myspace can be a springboard for many people as it probably was for you Eric and your team.
I'd love to post profile links to the scary ones I've seen...(this one guy looked like a killer, I swear.....) but then I'd be really evil...
So don't worry Eric at all. No one here is singling anyone out, but more just this pattern that's been expanding on Myspace. I kinda like that term..."Myspace Ghost Hunters."

Ok..back to work....bla!

Erik,
My opinion is what it is, I never mentioned third coast. I do not think were better, But I know my team has been around and EARNED OUR STRIPES.
Having all the equipment under the sun is OK, but honestly some teams out there within the first week buy everything, having no idea exactly how it is to be used on investigation, while buying a dVR and up to 16 cameras and then not knowing what or why their watching it, and they are considered a great team....
Truly ask one of these teams to explain why we use an EMF?
Ask them what an ambient digital thermometer is? Ask them why the 2 are used together during an investigation.
Ask them if they truly know why we use so many types of IR cams and minidv's etc
You start asking some of these teams why they are ghost hunting, you will basically get a shit story.

I don't know you Erik, I have no idea what type of team you truly are, I would not and did not make a judgment call on you. But if you fall under that of which I wrote earlier and it struck you the way it did, maybe you might wanna skip that $100.00 dollar recorder and go to yahoo, and open a web page using site builder. it runs about $12.00 a month, and it is relatively easy to build your site. It shows seriousness, and commitment to longevity.. it show to a lot of us that a team may be credible, and I know that all teams I refer cases to must have a web page.

I am sorry this offended you, but change it up, build your site, I would have respected you more having basic equipment with a kick ass website. Our website on myspace was created back in February, as a suggestion by a team that we work with as a means of networking with other teams across the country. Honestly not one claim from a client has come from it. When the TV station chose us, they checked over a hundred webpages, then chose ours for the personability, and we are not even within broadcast range. We have also invited you to work with us out to Perecheney, I know it wasn't a case, but none the less it was an opportunity to get to know you, and your team.

Take care

(In the words of Matt..."Amberrose...why did you start this rant!!") Because it's a good way to vent off steam and it looks like it might have made a few other things come out that need to be resolved:)

Now, on to the good stuff.

I can't believe that teams take their kids out. I've seen this before on public investigations in cemeteries and such. But I can't see dragging your kids along on a home/business investigation.

And I agree with you Matt on your opinion that nothing has really changed too much (I admit....I was once an "orbie" as well back in 2000 and I have since gotten the needed help to recover), only it's multiplied with people so it feels worse.

And on a last note on the website issue, I can say with experience as well that websites truly make a difference. When we first started out as a group under Great Lakes Paranormal Research, we had a very clean, easy to navigate site. And more often then not, we got a lot of people who stated they wrote us because our website looked professional or other reasons, while the animated ghosts and creepy clip art of other sites made them look away from other sites.

So ok...I think I'm going to tip toe away from this one now......(and Amber slips back into her work chair and starts to look busy)....

Ok I know me and my team are not one of these less the credible "myspace" teams. I had a nice talk with Matt last night on the phone, this is the second time we have talked and He is such a nice person and willing to offer advice etc so thanks Matt. My whole stand on the myspace teams is this. We started our myspace page as a way to get our name out . (networking) We have gotten zero cases from myspace but we have made a few friends and thats cool. We also use it as a way to communicate . We are going to start a "real " web page soon , now that I am back to work my $$ issues will allow us to do that ( I have been off work hurt for the past 7 months so feeding the family was a bit more important then our web page ) . I will always give my "peers" a chance to prove themselves it maybe a bit naive on my part but oh well. And I wanna say thanks again to Matt, Larry , and Amber . We have not been around as long as you guys and we have run into some of the "backstabing" from other groups etc. that seems to happen in this field , but you guys are truly the class of people that make help give us all a good name , thanks.

Thanks for the kind words Eric;) It can be hard starting out in this sometimes. But yes, I agree. Myspace is a great place to meet other people involved in this and it is good for what the site was initially set up for: networking.
I know there are a lot of hosting companies to go through, but MOS uses 1and1.com and we have a very good package through them. I think I pay like 50 bucks a year or less for tons of space, bandwidth, etc. So you might want to check them out when you start setting up your .com site.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once again with sensitives and psycho's ..... ok ok psychic's but if there so psychic they should of known i'd respond. The names were changed to protect the idiots.
Sorry had to scream ..... This is from another paranormal forum I belong.

We're up in Bailey CO, we are what I would call exceptionally professional but do have two sensitives and a psychic. Our equipment is limited because of lack of $$ but we manage to find something almost everytime we got out. We are coming to an end of the outside season up here, but you are always welcome to come with us if you can manage the drive. We tend to stick around the Highway 285 corridor from Conifer to Fairplay.


My response
I read these posts and am amazed at how people think they are capturing things almost every time out. How can any team say this and claim to be professional. I would say your capturing things that can be explained if you take the time and know how all your equipment works you will find out paranormal is only captured in a small percentages of investigations. If you find it more your watching to much TV. Most pictures I see presented online as paranormal are matrixing, dust, moisture pollen, insects orbs. I hear evp's that are footsteps, hand movement on recorders, another investigator talking in the back ground. The paranormal field has gotten worse with TV because now all these teams think they will find something every time out. When in reality its less then 5% for our team as much as ten to teams that have super interview process. Do you look for fear cages, do you do toxicology reports? Do you check for stress in the household, do you find out if your clients are on medication. Do you check to see if your clients are exposed to chemicals at work? I feel sorry for clients when they get a team that feeds them the garbage your haunted when it is explainable.
Just my opinion ..... And experience.

Disclaimer: When I say new teams i'm not talking about all new teams.... just ones like this. If you find this interesting you should read what they post about excorsism. This other place is moderated so it sometimes takes 4 days for my comment to show up.

Amen!
That's the first thing I tell people who ask about the stuff we come across doing this. I think I might even have said that in that Battle Creek Enquirer interview. This stuff isn't common!!! Have they responded to you yet?

Not yet, but when they do i'm sure they'll be pleasant and thank me ...... yea right .... I'll get told off again... story of my life

I think the big part of this rant is professionalism. Thanks to mass media prodcasting 50 different television shows about the paranormal into our home, everyone feels they can now go out and become a ghost hunter after watching a few episodes of their favorite unreality TV show. Unfortunately, that is not the case. While they can take on the name of paranormal investigator and open up a website offering their services, it does not properly prepare them for what is out there, nor does it give a credible image to those that do take things seriously. If that is all that was necessary, no one would ever need call us. After all, they could just do it themselves.

True paranormal investigating is not about having a fancy acronym for a name.
It is not about having all the fancy toys either.

It is about having the critical thinking to strip away fact from fiction, natural causes from the unexplained. It is about having a solid understanding of the real world and the mechanisms behind it and being able to see what does not fit. The tools we use are only as good as the knowledge and experience of the investigator behind them. All too often "paranormal investigators" set the bar low. Imagine how much more we would understand in the field if every spirit photographer was a professional photographer, every EVP collecter was an audio specialist, and every EMF detector user was an electrician with an additional degree in statistical analysis. That of course is not typical. Sadly though people in ghost hunting don't normally even take courses in related field. A group is often considered good if they took the time to read and understand the equipment manuals (a thing that alot of the TV groups obviously do not do).

There are good people out there in the field though that know their stuff. The trick is to find enough of them and get them to work together. That can happen. The other trick is get clients pointed to them. Client education is very important. If I could recommend one thing to clients it would simply be "to shop around". Don't just depend on the first ghost hunting group you come across. Contact several, talk to them all, ask alot of questions, and don't even consider a group unless you feel that they can benefit you and your peace of mind. More knowledgable clients will help build more knowledgable groups. After all, when groups realize that 4-5 other groups are being interviewed for every site, they have to get their ducks in a row and not be another "my space" type group.

I have dealt with thing's in my past home that I do not think most team's would be able to handle. Something that my own mother (I was a child at the time) and step-father could not handle.

To think of a young team that is not truly experienced going into that house would be a very scary thing. I believe there was more then one entity in that house but I know at least one of them was evil, maybe even demonic.

I know some of you said you never encountered a demonic entity before but I feel that my family has.


I am not a ghost hunter but I may be interested in investigating one day when my children grow older (I am a very busy mother at the moment) but even after going through what I did as a child I still feel as if I would want to start off either very small or with someone experienced.

We do not have enough information about the paranormal for even the experienced teams to know exactly what they are getting into so it's totally absurd for the newer teams to think that way.

I totally agree , and I think that this site and the people on it make it an awesome tool as well as a great place to share ideas etc it allows us all a chance to talk about all kinds of subjects. I know if me or my team should run into something that we need help with we can get a hold of some of the teams we have talked to or met and get their help or advice , and I think that being able to do this to get to the bottom of something the right way is the only way to go as opposed to thinking we can handle everything and anything and in doing so putting your team or your client in a bad situation.