Michigan's Otherside Paranormal Forums

Amen. Sometimes I want a secret pit in the ground where some of these people can go live.

I'm not Christian myself, but I see what Kiriashra is saying when it comes to people not understanding real Christianity. It seems to many people just do this: go to church, donate a few bucks, observe a few holidays and say a prayer or two and they are "Christian." You're right, if more people practiced what they preached, the world would be a whole lot better. But I think a large problem with Christianity is the "Cheesification" of it all (yes I made up a word.) When I'm going through the channels on the TV, I'll stop on those Christan channels and just laugh at the horrible sining or the creepy Benny Hinn. It's like if you ever saw the movie "Dogma" and George Carlin's character comes up with the "Buddy Jesus" to try and bring people back to church. Just corny! I think it dumbs the religion down a bit.

I would think the bigger problem (this coming from a Christen) is to many people read what they want, and not what its about.....and change things to fit there own doctrine.

Example from Genesis
"In the beginning..."

The accentual translation was
"In a beginning"

Other problems would be that they only view the bible as the truth...before knowing what the bible is...
Example
The story of Noah is from a Babylonian tale, that was around before Christianity, and was brought into the bible for its moral lessons.

The bible is meant to be a history book, a reference book, and a teaching book from God to help us become better people.

Now that being said, I can not simply accept that God in it's infinite wisdom would not have the foresight to see that people react to things and only can relate to things based on there experience. I am sure God knew people are idiots and would use this tool to manipulate men's hearts, and would of gave some sort of way for those who are lost to find their way to the kingdom.

Second off the Tower of Babel teaches us that because men like to play GOD, he needed to separate us, and protect us from ourselves, what better way then Religion. If we all can not decide what or if God exist and how he exist which seems a rather moot point to me. Then were to busy worrying about that then trying to build a tower to the heavens.

However due that we are of the flesh, and think of the flesh, we create ways to justify our downfalls

1) There is no God - simple easy and if there is no God, there is no higher justice, if no higher justice, then we
need not worry about what we do with this life, and why should I believe, science can not prove he exsist so there forth he must not..(of coarse by that logic then there is no such thing as Ghost and we all can call it for the day)

2) Well My God Doesn't think that way - This is my favorite. Well Ok I acknowledge there is a higher being, but he wants us to full-fill our lives and do with what we will, as long as we are not hurting anyone else....Problem with this, is it is a huge misrepresentation of basic truth. Anything we do to advance ourselves in a material sense, being money, sexual, or what have you is placing yourself above the need of someone else...
I am sure I just upset some people but hey I call it like it is. If you read through any what I call a true religion theology they all have one thing in common (wait for it Wait for it)

Balance....There is a good, and a evil, a wrong and a right, a left and a right, and we are left to make that distinction. Yes it is a simple yet inner truth that you are not put on earth to have fun party it up, and use its resources for your own gain, but to better the planet, through understanding, care taking, or leaving a example, and if you tend to ignore these basic inner truths, something bad will happen.

It comes down to this I am a Christen for events that have happened to me, I am a Christen because in being a true Christen, it is not a easy walk, and most things in life worth having never come easy, I am a Christen because I truly believe in the teachings.

But to end this on a positive note, Two things the bible teaches that ruin Christianity for everyone, two things that are misused to scare people to there doctrin ..

1) Love thy neighbors, as thy loves thyself...dose not say only love them if they follow your principals, your theology, your religion, It says simply Love them as you Love yourself...A love that is True dose not ask a person to change, it accepts you for who you are.

and 2) "Go spread the word, if they shall not listen, do not stand there and argue, let it fall upon death ears, and go find someone who will.........." Two things I want to point out about this.....1 it says do not stand around and argue with the person about there belief's (A lot of Christens could learn from this) and 2 It dose not state they are going to hell if they do not think the way you do...(Again a lot of Christens could learn form this)

Ok i am stepping down from my soap box...sorry if I went off on a Religious tangent, I tend to do sometimes, when this subject is brought up.. I really do think that if you love one and another, do whats moralistic and right, then you do follow God even without calling him that, after all he doesn't need a name, it is us who think we are honored enough to name him.

I like that quote:)

Thank you. I won my wife with my ability to write and verse. I wrote our wedding song, and still sing her to sleep on tough nights with it 11 years latter. shhh do not let it out I am a softy lol

"Cheesification" is the perfect word for it. When I was a teen I went through a phase where I was not christian and I was trying to tell my family how cheesy it all seemed to be. I had to discover the truth of it myself and not what other people made it into.

That's one reason why it is so hard to find a church for me.

I am sure I will get burned at the stake for this.....................

There is only reason I can say to have a church "Where there is a gathering in my name, I shall be their....."

Other then that Church is an out dated concept for the most part. The original church was for teaching those who were uneducated the Words. Now that we are a highly educated society for the most part, and thanks to those wonderful Gideons, the Bible is free and available to anyone who can read....Which dose bring up the question of why did the early Church chain the bible to the Alter....anyways....As was can read for ourself and are capable of understanding, I see that Church as itself or how it was known as is outdated, what is really needed in my thoughts are groups were people of like mind can join and discuss what they have read..

Then again I guess if you are not sure of the interpretation, a well studied person should be around to ask...me i prefer to ask God for the wisdom in understanding, and hope he grants it.

Which also brings up another question if we all were well studied and understood the teachings, would we really need a Church.....Hmmm

Most likely be more wars...."Its a the not a a...", "You hypocrite is clearly says in THE..."

yep more wars...

..........

I agree with you about the lack of Moral Fiber in our children today. We as a people have cluttered their heads with so much junk, that it is hard to determine what is acceptable and what is not....

To quote a great line from a great movie
"People are stupid, the single person is smart, but people in general are stupid"

I however think the greatest threat to us, is the pushing of its no ones fault, our the it's someone else fault...

I say take credit people if ya mess up Say Boy I BEEPED Up and take responsibility for it, of course Church is not helping either, Last Church I went to, played the same game, It is not your fault it is the world we love in.....I wonder if I can use that excuse to get in to heaven..

BUT God, I did not mean to pillage and rape all those villagers, society mad me do it..

After reading all of these posts, I only have a few things to say. Without going into alot of detail about religion itself, I will say that my life was alot like yours, Jewitch. When I was 14, my mom started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, after having studied with them as well back in the 60s, and within just a few months she became one. I was one myself for a couple of years before disassociating myself. I've had paranormal experiences literally all of my life and before she became a witness she called them ghosts or spirits. She had even dabbled with various forms of divinitation and such... palm reading, tarot cards, hypnosis, out of body experiences, reincarnation... you name it. After she became a witness, it all ceased and everything paranormal became demons. I got to where I couldn't discuss it at all with her because she wouldn't even listen to me. I've always been able to sense when something else was there, moreso if it was evil. There's a huge difference in the feeling I get with the two. To say the least, it affected how I responded to the paranormal for a long time. I moved 10 hours away from her a little over a year ago and I'm starting to see the paranormal in a whole new light, once again.

maybe they should do religious forums- like these... except the background would be a gigantic white cross i think

thats pretty up-to-date i feel

They would probably have more luck gaining the interest of the children if they did.

probably

turning technology into a learning tool has become a trend- that totally goes along with that theme, even though non-computer savvy adults might not like to talk about religion on forums (which they could figure some internet-related thing for them too) they would have to approve of kids sitting in front of the computer all day to learn about religion

sometimes i have amazing ideas on accident

hehe

i should patent that! (except im sure there are already religious forums)

I am sure as well, the problem is I bet anyone who comes in with a different thought concept gets flamed off the board. Which I do not understand, Religion is based on as much of a theory, as Ghost. Yet more people seem to embrace the Idea of a haunting then a religion. I think you have to embrace both, after all they are tied together.

Christan's have Demonology

Wiccan's have the spirits and faires

Buddhism is impregnated by ghosts stories.

So I do not see the problem.....Oh wait the problem is it makes sense, we can't have that.

It has taken me a very long time.
There was always this "voice" in the back of my head, "I shouldn't be doing this. This is wrong. ", etc.
Finally, one lovely day, I had my first Reiki session and I finally was able to meet my spirit guides and also see what they looked like and everything. They actually came up to me and literally took that nagging thought away. It looked like a small, square, black box. Now, that nagging feeling is 100% gone!
I am not kidding. I am free and I feel wonderful.

When I have JW's come to my door, I ask them why I have seen ghosts and spirits all of my life. Why would demons harras a little girl. (As you know, a person who claims to see Ghosts or spirits is being harrased by demons), I also ask why demons would come to a JW's home because weren't we taught they would not enter into that home? Why too did I have visions in the Kingdom Hall (church). Demons were definately not supposed to go in there!

They never have much to say to that and politley get themselves gone!!!
ha ha.

Interesting, though I do not see why demons can not be in the Kingdom Hall. A building dedicated to any faith is still just a building, it is the people who are part of the building that makes it holy.

In my life I have seen both good and evil, in man as well as in spirits, and have come to the belief that the only place you are truly safe is inside yourself. If your faith in your religion is strong and pure, then nothing will be able to hurt you, on the other note, I have noticed it is those individualist who are strong in there faith that are often tormented the most by the other side.

First off, to Jewitch -- I hear you. I, too, grew up in a Jehovah's Witness household (a 3rd generation JW, me), and also began showing clairvoyant abilities from a very, very young age. It was not a pleasant situation to be in, to say the least. These days, I am a practicing and devout pagan (have been since I was about 12 to be totally honest -- I just kept it well hidden until I turned 18 -- I'm now 31). So anyway, just sayin' -- I know how you feel/felt.

On the topic at hand, I honestly think that one's belief system affects paranormal experiences to an extent. And when I use the term paranormal, I'm using it as a catch-all term for spirits in general, whether human or non-human. I've been taught by various teachers on my path that all spirits (even the non-human) are no different than the people you meet on the street. They have different peronalities, likes, dislikes, and they may not get along with everyone all the time. Some simply dont like humans at all and go out of their way to cause problems/injury to people. These last that I mention I don't view as "demons" in the Biblical sense -- in other words, I don't see them as infernal servants of Satan. I see tham as being no different that any human criminal that breaks into someone's home and robs, kills, destroys or what have you -- angry invisible people with a chip on their shoulder, if you will.

I also think, though, that one's beliefs and expectations do, to an extent, dictate how you are going to perceive a spirit. If you are expecting a nasty, malevolent entity, then that's what you are going to get, whether it's really a genuine spirit or not. Sometimes, people get so wrapped up in what they expect to happen, they interpret every little thing as a result of spirit action. And when spirits do manifest, I think they take cues from the person(s) present as to how the manifest -- especially non-human entities. For example, if you're a non-human spirit, and you have a group of devout Catholics in the room that you want gone, what better way to get rid of them than to make yourself appear as a "demon"?

That being said, as a researcher, I try maintain a certain amount of open-minded skepticism, and to set my personal beliefs aside.

Lostzac, you make a good point. I, too, believe that you have embrace both religion and belief in spirits. They do go hand-in-hand, especially when one is talking about spirits of those who've passed on.

As far as why demons are not supposed to be able to enter a Kingdom Hall is that is the house of Jehovah, and so in a sense, his spirit dwells there. Since demons are supposed to flee in terror at the very mention of his name, it's supposed to be even more so that they would not dare to enter his "house", so to speak. Or something along that line, if I remember correctly. I don't talk religion with my parents anymore.....

Tara

You are right in that sense Tara, but the term God, has about the same meaning as Love in most peoples lives, In other words its just a word, and I think a Demon would be able to sense the difference between a house built on Faith (what ever the faith my be) and one built on words...


As were paraphrasing

"The wise man built his house upon rocks, while the fool built his on the sand..."

I think that works in the sense of faith as well

Darklight,

Funny how things go, isn't it?

I do remember being taught that the very ention of His name, Jehovah, would in fact terrify demons and make them go away.
However, when these beings would walk around my room at night I would say the name loud and clear and over and over again, terrified, drenched in sweat and wondering why in the world the "demons" stayed around even though I said the name a thousand times.

So confused and afraid for so long. Nothing made any sense and of course, I could say nothing nor ask questions. I still speak to my parents and once in a while get the balls enough to ask questions about why I could see ghosts, of course they get really offended and pissed off.

Oh, I agree with you. Faith plays a strong part in a lot of ways. Hee hee! I didn't say they were correct as to it keeping demons at bay, but that's just the sum of their belief in why it's "supposed" to be a safe haven.

Tara

I have seen a demon or ghost or spirit or something react to my aunt reading the Bible to try to get it out of her house. I didnt see a actual figure but the more she read from her Bible the more things started going nutso until it finally stopped.

That right there said a lot about God's word and how real it is. So of course the paranormal and faith go hand in hand.