Michigan's Otherside Paranormal Forums

I thought about this for a long time....Pros and Cons and thought I would post my thoughts to see what fellow investigators think....

First off let me go on record and say I do believe in charging a customer (GASP I KNOW), but before you all burn me at the stake let me tell you my reasons....

In this life you need money....its a fact. Paranormal Investigation (I really do not like the term ghost hunter, makes it sound like something out of a b class movie) cost money. There is equipment cost, upkeep, travel, time, and research that is all put into a serious investigation. This can cost anywhere from a few dollars to hundreds. Someone has to eat that cost.

Mediums get paid for there interpretations, much like a lawyer gets paid for his reading on the law
Privet Eyes get paid to find people, and I am sure the people on SCI-FI's Ghost Hunters gets paid form the media.
Scientist as well get paid from large companies to work on the next drug or break through....

With that being said....the next question is how do you charge for something that is more speculation then hard core proof....

Any Science can be backed up, Paranormal is no different, why you may not be able to prove there is a ghost per say, you can prove there is strange flux in the electro magnetic readings, variant temperature readings that are abnormal, Radiation shows up on infrared..ect ect ect

All we really are doing is speculating on what the readings mean. Now there are various reasons for readings, and a true investigator will rule out all logical interferences first. Appliances, Vents, ect ect ect

Now the next logical thinking would be how do you charge.....Most groups around that I have read all say this, You should never pay for a investigation, blah blah blah....

Ok first off most of their investigations are concluded in one or two nights of reading and a hypothesis on what is going on. This is backed on 1 or two strong readings and what the group feels or the medium gets the impression of. Then the investigation is over and life goes on......I question some (and thats some not all) of these investigations as how can you be sure...what is your base line, how do you know for sure thats a hot spot....what are you comparing your readings to.....

and i do love it when they fall back on we have photos of Orbs or EVPs......

A true investigator also knows that Orbs , well 70% of them can be explained, and the ones that can not, well I am basing that some are charged particles, which would behave different then the dust following the air current, or some natural phenomena. I am not saying that all Orb photos are false, as I have seen some videos and photos, that I could not explain, and those I do mark as paranormal (which dose not mean a ghost)

EVP - I am a skeptic of EVPS that have been altered (clean upped) as this can change what we are actually hearing. The ones that are not altered, I look for some markers, like accent of the voice, words being used....When I first got into this, I would also video tap any E.V.P readings we did tape, so I could go back and look for background noise that may of filtered into the area......

Case and Point....On one reading we were in a house, and picked up the distinct sound of a door being closed....this was indisputable. Upon looking at the video we had taking, I did not notice anything out of the ordinary in the room, but I did take into account we were close to a wall facing some woods outside. To my dismay (as we all get excited when we think we have proof of something) I found out on the other side of the woods bordering the house was a park, which hosted little league games. The time frame of the sound we picked up was the same time frame a game was about to start, and upon closer examination of the sound, you could tell it was a car door...Now I have grown in my experience since then, and not so apt to make a rookie mistake, but it happens to all of us, its the learning curve.

I am also a big fan of the hypothesis that E.V.P are echoes or sound waves trapped for some reason in the electro magnetic field.

Now that I have totally gotten off subject, I will get back to my point. If your doing a one night investigation then I could see the point in not charging, but if your diving into historical records, taking many trips to get a baseline of readings, spending many nights doing field work, I can see a point in charging.

For me personally, with this new group I am trying to set up, I will most likely not charge, instead I will set up a non-profit group, and just ask for whatever they feel they can donate to further my studies.

The largest problem with charging is not the charging, it is protecting the people from scam artist who will try to make a quick buck on someones fears.......

"Ok Jim we have discovered you have a class 5 haunting, and ummm you need a exerosit which will um cost you another 500 hundred dollars to get him out here and um cost yeah , and if you choose not to pay, this um demon yeah thats it this demon can hurt your little girl " - do not tell me you can not see some yahoo doing that to a poor family....the world is cruel and so are the people in it.

My advice would be to do the same you would do for anything you were paying for....research the group, ask for reference, and read through any contract they may have you sign before committing...A true investigator I do believe would at least give a free consultation, and do some minor research before even asking for a donation or a fee...

Thats just my 2 cents

I did want to clarify one thing....

When I do investigations, I do spend a great deal of time in it....I do not do the one night stop thing.....The Ada Witch File I am running, is already 2 weeks worth of research, and about 50.00 spent....This is before I even start any field work....I figure it will ruffly cost me around 300-400.00 when done in time and equipment.

All I am saying, is people are going to charge, rather you like it or not, rather you agree with it or not, will not matter in the end....and people will be scammed, unfortunately with the glamorization of TV more will get scammed now then recent years , but it is going to happen......

If I did or do charge, I would make sure the person had a complete breakdown of my findings, and back up my work, I would also make my work available to be proved or disproved (keeping any name confidentially of coarse endless written permission says otherwise), and I am confident enough in my research.

I respect the thoughts on those who think this should be a free service, and ask them humbly if they want it free, then their needs to be a non profit organization that grants grants, or other resources for someone doing either consultations, investigations, or scientific research.

Lostzac,

This is a very hot debate topic in the paranormal. Thanks for posting it because I’m sure it’ll make everyone think a bit. To charge or not to charge! Like you mentioned, mediums and psychics charge for their readings, a Tarot reader charges, but why can’t a paranormal researcher, like you say, doing sometimes tons or research, possibly spending time and money on a place, ask for cash?

I can definitely see the point you are making. I see nothing wrong with asking someone for gas money if the researcher or team has to drive far to investigate someone’s place if the people can afford to throw some money your way.

It’s such a fine line to debate. The argument I usually hear is, “this is a hobby, not a job, and you should not charge people because what are you charging them for? Coming up with a hypothesis regarding the haunting in a home or other place?” But like you mentioned, there’s sometimes other work involved such as the research and time spent, especially if you are investigating a place over and over.

We’ve never charged anyone for anything, but I can tell you we were a little peeved after a two hour drive to investigate a home where the people “wanted us to prove their home was haunted.” They were creepy people, the house scared us, they locked one kid in a bedroom at night (long story) and their older kids came home and smoked weed in the basement, making that area of the house totally off limits during the investigation. Needless to say, it was a waste of our time and money, but unfortunately, that kind of disappointment comes with the territory.

I hope one day there is something that offers grants to people who can legitimately study and research the paranormal. There has been in the past and I’m sure they will come around again one day.

I do know there is some schools in England that offer Grants, and I think one in South or North Carolina.....Not sure on that last part though....

I think that is a good issue on charging as well.....The fact you may be tempted to fake evidence, to make the people your working for happy...

One of the reasons I inform people who ask me to PROVE there house is haunted or not, that First off there is at this time no 100% way to prove, and second all, what I do is gather evidence and make a speculation on what I have gathered.....Now if the evidence is off the charts, I will be the first one to tell them...

I also say if you want someone to prove your house is haunted, then your really talking to the wrong person, I tend to disprove more then prove ....

Okay I have not read what anyone has written, I know how crazy! But I have one stance, No.

I say this because most 'ghost hunters' do the investigations for scientific research. Which should be totally free--many of the 'ghost hunters' do not get rid of anything--yes they can help but it always does not help.

Now lets look at scientific research in a hospital, do people pay the hospital to take part? No the hospital pays the people... The people need help--they try out the new medication and they get paid as well...

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying that Ghost Hunters should pay people to investigate their home, I am saying no money should be exchanged what-so-ever....

The only ground that money should be exchanged is if the house is farther then an hour away--which would be a small sum of some gas cash.

Why what you say makes sense...I refer you back up to the original....Scientist...get paid...Tomas Edison was not exactly poor, and he did make quite a bit off his inventions based off the scientist he paid to discover and advance there studies.........................

Again I am not saying you should pay or should not pay should charge or should not charge.....I am saying that I can understand charging.....

by the way a privet eye who is hired to find out if his significant is cheating, is the same as a paranormal investigator who is hired in finding out if a house is haunted....I know the jobs are different and methods are different but it is still the same...you have a job to do and you should be professional about it.

In is interesting in seeing how people feel though.

Hahahh:) Good one Devyn. Don't read the posts before you write:) You crack me up!

If you go back and read the posts, LostZac does make some interesting points, but see how passionate people get about this topic? I'm sure it'll spark a bunch more posts!

This is a touchy subject. I dont know what I think. I see how researching the paranormal could get pricey and for people who have very little money like myself could benfit from charging even a small fee, but at the same time even if we find paranormal activity what can we really do about it? What are we charging for. A answer saying "Yes, there is paranormal acitivity here?" I think that some money should be given to this field though. So people can do more work and try to get the paranormal out of the dark ages. I am not sure what I think about charging people though. I dont think I will make up my mind about this topic anytime soon.

That goes with my donation idea a little, instead of charging, ask them to make a donation in your name to a local science that specialize in it, or something like that.

I guess you would be charging for the same thing a lawyer dose, interpretation of whatever the situation is.

..........

I agree with you the problem is sorting the legit groups out from the rest, I do it for free, and look for other ways to help with the incurring cost, but I do not see why the stigma on those who do charge, endless they are not legit. I mean I can understand the fears, how do you sue a group that is not legit, you would first have to proove that ghost do or do not exsist.

........

Why I will be using funds from my software to fund my group.

I can't believe I havn't seen this thread before
I don't think lostzac is here anymore but- I think he doesn't get the main reason some of us are out there, TO HELP! and not all mediums or psychics charge!!. if your looking for money then you need another hobby, because thats all it is to you a hobby. and one last thing don't compare yourself to a lawyer unless you went to college for 8 years.

Yeah, LostZac had to move on to other things, but this is a very important thread to think about because it comes up a lot still in the paranormal circles. I think this might have been mentioned above already, but as far as payment goes, no one should be charging for the actual investigation itself. The only time money should be involved is in the case of travel.

For example, if you live in Grand Rapids and someone from the U.P. wants only your team and no one else to come to their home, and if there's an issue of gas money to get there, and if the homeowners offer gas money, then I see no problem in excepting something like that in turn for driving many hours to get somewhere, but only if its offered. If you can't get there based on money, and the people asking for help can't pay, then try and help them find someone closer or help them long distance. Like you said Big Blue, no one has an eight year degree in this stuff so it's not like you can charge for advice. That's just wrong. It's an opinion and nothing more. If you can give comfort to someone having a strange moment in their life with something that could be paranormal, then take comfort in the fact that you could help them in anyway possible, such as advice, and accept that as payment.

It's hard to compare investigations, vs. Psychic readings or Tarot cards readings. In some ways they seem the same and in others they don't...that's really a tricky one to think about.

I am against charging, for most of us this is a hobby. If money is offered to cover some expenses, I wouldn't be against someone taking it, (this would depend on the place being investigated.) a business yes. One reason I am against it is two different teams could go in and come up with different results. As far as having a pyshic, I think that a few things should be considered, do the people who your doing the investigation for want a psychic? I guess you could have one as just a team member but only a small percent being devoted to the pyschic part. How many people? This depends on the size of the place being investigated. A small home, a team of 2-3 a large building 5-9 , now as far as leaving members out, members that aren't asked to go to the investigation could be involved in researching the results, this would help as they are going into this with no knowledge and can possibly notice things the people there missed. This is an expensive hobby, especially if you get the thermal cameras.( No I don't have one) Now with wonderful gas prices traveling costs more. There are to many teams now and I am sure some teams will give all of us a bad reputation. I am without a team now and probably won't start one back up for a while. There are at least three within 20 miles of here now. with more popping up daily. I consider myself more a source of information and a independent researcher now. I am always willing to toss out my opinion.......... even if its not asked for

I never said I agreed with charging...I was merely playing Devils Advocate...I can see why people would be against charging very easily, as well as I can see why some groups charge...

For those who are out there helping people, there are expenses, and lets face it some of those are steep, and before you go into if your helping you should not charge, try telling a doctor that or a shrink...

So what it comes down to is if its a proven science, and you will not get ridiculed for it, its ok to charge, but if its not a proven science then you must be trying to con someone, because they cant prove it...

HMmmm oh wait Psychiatry is not a proven science....maybe we should start ridiculing them...

Again I am not trying to say its ok to charge...just showing the opposite of the coin...I have never charged myself...but then again, I never got into it for money..

Just to let you know my doctor will not charge people if it is an emergency and you need his help. But charging people who ask you for help with paranormal events going on in their homes should never be charged. Donations always excepted is what I say.

Well then your Doctor is a lot nicer then most...I understand what you all are saying.....just again merely pointing out the other side of the argument...which has its good points as well:)

This topic has come up again in our discussions amongst my paranormal friends. A lady by the name of Dusty Smith wrote an article for a new online Paranormal magazine that actually made quite a bit of sense. The article was titled something to the effect of "Why Shouldn't We Charge?" She talked about the crazy amount of research and house history an investigator can put into an investigation. Now, if the investigator is responsible, well informed about the paranormal and takes what they do seriously, and after the investigation is wrapped up, presents the people with full documentation of the investigation, DVD's, CD's with any audio, etc., why is it wrong to charge a small fee of let's say $50 dollars for that. The article was more involved then what I'm typing here but if a person has something to show for their money, what's wrong with it? If someone contacts a genealogist to do family history, no doubt they have to pay and so on with other services someone requires for anything.

My opinion still stands that I wouldn't charge for an investigation simply because I feel wrong charging for looking for something that's potentially not even there. It's not like I'm coming into a home looking for a bug infestation that will or will not be there. But I can still see where if someone is taking the time to put real "quality" work into a case, I'm starting to see nothing wrong with a small fee for your time.

Now, the reason I resurrected this old post is from a previous post on here about very young people starting up investigation teams and going into homes and also the safety issue and the "nut jobs" many investigators have encountered. Anyone who's been doing investigation for a while and taking requests from people knows there's a lot of BS that has to get filtered out and it can be a serious waste of time. (One of the reasons why I currently don't take on any private investigations for now.) Now, if a serious, well established team charged let's say $30.00 to come out for an investigation (of course what constitutes quality is going to be a matter of perception as is all things), that might just be the catalyst to help weed out many of the creeps that like to submit requests and in fact, have nothing going on in their home.

It's food for thought and everyone has usually very strict opinions on this topic, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

Of course in reality, charging for something like this would just be a nightmare. Everyone would be saying, "for right now, our investigations are half off!" and on my god...the list would go on. "Who's qualified to charge..." It would be endless and that's where the blanket organization would need to come into play.